Time Machines: 
A Conversation with Sculptor Benjamin Carpenter
Interview with Holly Williams, San Francisco State University, 2008
Ben Carpenter is a sculptor from New England, doing his Master’s Research at San Francisco State University. Carpenter attended Maine College of Art in Portland, Maine, where he did his undergraduate work. He is focusing on his own practice while working collaboratively with a collective to produce large-scale works exhibited internationally. His steel wall works and recent kinetic sculpture are reminiscent of mythologies of an Industrial America, reconciling the relationship of man and machine in a technology driven, post-industrial world. Using Industrial metalsmithing processes such as die-forming, blacksmithing and welding he creates singular works of art that describe the position of the individual in relationship to the American experience, both historical and contemporary.
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H. Did you know that you wanted to work mainly in steel before you attended your undergraduate program?
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B. I have spent so much time working with metal and steel specifically, that sometimes I can only think in those terms. If I have an idea I immediately think of how to make it in metal.
I chose the Maine College of Art because of the metals program there, which was focused heavily around jewelry making. There were other elements to it, but the general scale was small. Despite that, I figured I would get a better technical education there instead of in the sculpture department. Sculpture was wide open, but lacking a bit with what I was really looking for which was hands on skills. My friends in sculpture and I would go back and forth as to who was receiving the better education. I felt like I was being limited by the scale of my major, and they were always frustrated they were not getting any “how –to “ education. We met in the middle and I had to navigate a path through that because I was just working bigger and bigger, I realized that my hands were too heavy to make little stuff.
H. Your work is pretty large scale; it is beyond easel size, if you want to talk about it painting terms. What about the scale on the early work, those almost anthropomorphic system-oriented works?
B. That would have been the early 2000’s. That work is interesting to me because it was sort of a segway from the smaller scale to where I am now. It was really a matter of access. Before moving to California, I did not have access to a shop to make that kind of work. When I moved here, I found a shop that had a small gas forge, and a very small power hammer. I was able to bang some of those things out and work in such a way that was largely exploratory for me, really diving into the material that had been wanting to get into for a long time. This work did not have much conceptual backing to it, as I was mostly playing around to see what I could do with the stuff. It was simply a matter of refining my techniques and making the material look good. This slowly started to combine with other things that were important to me such as politics, society & culture all anything else that might be important to anyone. Up until very recently it was hard for me to reconcile those ideas with the actual work.

B. A lot of people approach me with a similar version of that question. So it must be there somewhere. I do not know if it was entirely conscious on my part to include the notion of the body so much as I was thinking of systems. Maybe it comes through because my body is used so rigorously to make it …my personal physical labor is intense. There are times I am literally wrestling with it… those curvy twisty forms happen because the piece is temporarily welded to the table and I have a torch focused on one spot. Even when the metal is hot, it sometimes takes my whole body weight to bend it down.
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H. That is really interesting because when you think of an industrial type process, a layman doesn’t think of the artist’s hand showing through in the work. In fact what you are telling me is that there actually is a lot of your hand in the work, and a connection to your own body when you are making the stuff.
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B. Yeah, and I think that could be the extent of incorporating the body into the work. People see a material that they recognize as industrial or something that is very strong and used as structural elements. When they see it bent in shapes that are unfamiliar, they may assume that it takes a lot of work and a lot of strength.
There is another side to all of this work (the pieces that are representative of organs) that came out of something else entirely. I live in the Mission district of San Francisco where I find myself surrounded by Hispanic, Catholic imagery. I see a lot of imagery of what involves the sacred heart of Jesus. To my dismay, I was raised in a Northern Baptist church and by comparison, my church experience was very dry and boring compared with this version of Christianity.
H. So that work actually comes out of your experience of moving to the West Coast and living in this particular neighborhood, that you’re using this symbol of the heart.
B. Yes, partly. It is imagery that was not used in my religious education as a child and seeing it now congers all kinds of new thoughts and questions about people’s beliefs, psychology and survival. This religious imagery has fed my work a great deal in the recent past. Even without the spiritual contexts, the fantastic radiating halos around the heads of the saints and excessively ornate pictures of Jesus pulling his heart of his chest … it’s kind of frightening… so I became really interested in the image of the heart. I started to think about it and what it means to people in different contexts and found a disconnect between the spiritual and the scientific functions. The heart is a pump, just a part in a larger machine, but we assign other stuff to it- we assign to it the stewardship of our emotions.
I first die-formed a heart in sheet metal and then thought, what about the rest of the organs, do we assign similar meanings to those as well? I figured that I should make a series of organs otherwise I miss the point to all of this.
H. It talks very much about the body as machine, or the way that we project our subjective agendas onto systems, or parts to a whole.
H. So, the “Mandated Series”, the flag pieces that come later, also incorporate the heart as part of the flag.
B. This work was the cusp of conceptual change for me. The things that I am interested in socially and politically started to infiltrate the metal work that I was doing. I would put those pieces at the beginning of my conceptually oriented work, the joining of the two. It has been really hard to be a member of this country for the past several years, and I think at my age, especially so. I got interested in images of the flag and what that meant, started to research the flag and the different versions it has gone through and what they all meant. The symbology of the flag opened up a whole new world of meaning for me.
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H. There lays the transition to your new work…the flag series kind of birthed this new work where you are talking about contemporary politics. The thing that gets me though is that you’re using this steel, although we use it in new structures, feels old to me, makes me think of more of an early twentieth century environment, where we were still concentrating on building American infrastructur
B. The good old days….
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H. The work has a time machine effect where we think about not only contemporary politics but we also think about them in reference to history.
Would you say that the medium of Steel acts like a bridge from one time to another?
B. Sure, it could. That is interesting and it pleases me to know that is the effect one might have when seeing this work. I came to steel as a material partly out of an interest in history. When I was eighteen years old and deciding what I wanted to do with my life, I thought that special effects might be the direction I took. So, I went off to film school, which did not work out in the end. Nevertheless, I realized that I really enjoyed working with my hands. My childhood was filled with armchair history lessons from my grandfather and hours spent watching and reading sci-fi and fantasy. In hindsight, I know that the elements that attracted me to those genres were visual. The look and feel of the backgrounds (star ships, alien planets, knights in armor and Gothic castles) always translated materially to me, which was at times heavy, rusty, shiny, layered and textured, but always metallic. When I was watching westerns I was looking at the old locomotives and big riveted chambers and the steam power and then if I was watching science fiction it was always the sleek spaceships. There was always a material attraction for me.
It was sort of a natural evolution to get involved in metal work.
H. On your flag pieces, there’s a sort of a patina that makes me think about finish fetish, but finish fetish was more about sleek, so you’re giving us a patina that talks about age, makes the thing look like it’s been used, or worn. Obviously that talks about nostalgia but in reference to politics are you trying to speak about a certain level of failure?
B. The patina for me is a way to finish the work, to separate it from other metal sculpture. Adding color brings a whole new level of life to the work. I guess the age question….I do not know if it expresses a level of failure, maybe success rather. I have always thought the patinas I do give the work a look like it has lasted through the ages, this it is something that has been built, and buried and lost somewhere and then uncovered again.
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H. I know that you have a collection of bones, and you collect these kinds of relics. Maybe the work functions as a type of relic; there is definitely a sacred quality, like you are setting up a kind of mythology where the sacred item is kind of metonymic to a larger conversation.
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B. Yes.
H. Now you are In the middle of this new project – the kinetic sculpture, which is also a wall work. There is a connection to painting and definitely a narrative that functions like in a painting.
B. Sort of loosely 3 dimensional paintings. Some parts are literally painted, although the focus is on the structure.
H. Is this your first kinetic sculpture?
B. It is, even as simple as the machinery is; there is a lot of thought that goes into it. Once you commit to things you are stuck, if a part is in the wrong place, that’s it. Fortunately I have a lot o friends who are engineers and scientists and do this stuff professionally. I am involved in a group that does large-scale pieces that usually involve a lot of engineering. I am fortunate because I get to, by osmosis, pull from that body of knowledge. This (new work) is still largely experimental for me.
H. So this is your first interactive work.
B. As an individual, yes. However, this was largely inspired and informed by my collaborative work, which has always included different layers of interactivity.
H. Your collaborative works are the “Steampunk Treehouse””, and the recent” Neuron chamber”
How did you become a part of this collaborative team? Do you have trouble separating your own work from the collaborative works?
B. No, my work is is very much my own vision and responsibility. When I work collaboratively, I have a different sense of ownership in the work. I put my best skills forward, but because of the group nature, I do not have to make all of the considerations that are needed for a large project. It is relieving in ways. We formed over one project that happened just about 18 months ago (The Steampunk Treehouse - exhibited at Burning Man 2007) we worked well together and over the course of the last year, taken on projects as a group. Most of us though also do our own work individually. Right now we are trying to formalize this community into some kind of official collective, so that we can push our individual careers forward under the umbrella and safety of a group.
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H. Can you describe your new work, which is still in progress?
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B. This new work is about exploring history through the lens of art and contemporary society. I am using portraits of the founding fathers of the United States with overlapping imagery of Gothic & Neo-Classical architecture.
I am also experimenting with humor in the work in the form of animals, namely monkeys and pigs (at this point).
There is this big steel rectangular frame and it sits on the wall. In it there are six small frames, which will house the portraits of the ‘Fathers’. Behind these portraits are tubes that hold rods, which will move up and down.
H. Will all of the machinery/ mechanism that moves these rods will be exposed?
B. Yes, it is human powered, so the viewer activates the piece by turning a crank. Every time it turns, the rods will be pushed up and down. Therefore, you will stand in front of the piece and turn a crank to actuate the whole thing. The rods will be moving over a field, which will mimic a flag in the form of a radiating sun.
So, at the top of the rods will be the monkeys who will be holding automatic weapons. I should say that this is a nightmare to describe and difficult to imagine finished. I am not making any definitive political statements here. My work is more about questions than answers.
H. So it is not necessarily didactic, but it is definitely narrative. Moreover, that is a break for you, since your earlier work is very abstract, organic. This actually is a moving story that involves time and labor.
B. There are issues about the second amendment in there, which was the impetus for the piece, but now it has evolved into a larger idea. I am toying with the title, “Sorry Guys” as if I were apologizing to the founding fathers, for what I (we) have done with what they created, but this has not been finalized yet. Reading about the events that led to this country’s founding is sometimes shockingly similar to what I see happening today. It is like I am watching the local news in my mind’s eye, but everyone is wearing funny wigs and ugly coats. I am reading a book right now about how the Continental Congress supplied Washington’s army to fight against the British in the revolution. The book cites examples of how a weak, yet determined group rallied support, both financial and moral from its people to literally build a force strong enough to repel and ultimately defeat the largest army in the world of that day. About half way through, I slapped my forehead when I realized that the birth of liberty was also the birth of military privatization.
We had these founding fathers that were absolutely scrambling to build this war effort, to stand up against the imposing force of the British Empire and in the end (today) we have a bunch of monkeys dancing around with guns.
B. So that is where I am right now. It has renewed an interest in history for me. My formal education in history ended in public high school. Growing up in New England where this stuff actually happened, I feel that I should be intimate with this information, but there is so much that I never learned. Some of the best generals in this war (American Revolution) lived in my hometown, and I am just now realizing this. So, I am finding History through Art. Which is a very exciting path for me to be on right now.
-Holly Williams, November 2008.
www.hollywillliams.org
To learn more about Benjamin Carpenter’s work, go to:
www.backbonemetals.com